Newbie Novice

[WoodKnot]

Good morning Jazzcnc - i would like to build one, as that way i can build the knowledge for when things go wrong, but looking for a project that i can build this year. Whilst i do have some engineering skills and woodworking skills, I have never welded, I am not set up to cut metals either. If you could recommend profiles, motors etc that would be great - and where to purchase them from? I don't ever foresee me needing a machine bigger than 1mtr x 1mtr to be honest. I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

[Clive S]

I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

Do you not think that the above is over ambitious. I think you are under estimating the weight and size. Lasers have to be able to run very fast that's why a lot of them are belt drive rather that ball screws.

Have a good read through some of the build logs http://www.mycncuk.com/forums/282-Ga...hines-Building.

[JAZZCNC]

Good morning Jazzcnc - i would like to build one, as that way i can build the knowledge for when things go wrong, but looking for a project that i can build this year. Whilst i do have some engineering skills and woodworking skills, I have never welded, I am not set up to cut metals either. If you could recommend profiles, motors etc that would be great - and where to purchase them from? I don't ever foresee me needing a machine bigger than 1mtr x 1mtr to be honest. I would also like to set it up for both router and laser. I also want to design it so it can be set in a unit so it either pulls out or on a hinge system that allows it go beneath one of my work tables or make a hinged top to allow access when i need it.

Ok well first let me say I strongly agree with Clive S that you are being a little over-ambitious here, however, I will try to steer in the right direction when the time comes but unfortunately, you are very far from me or anyone being able to recommend anything at this point.

To advise accurately on important and expensive purchases like motors, drives, controllers and all the other related components requires you have a design to work with. There are many variables that come into play to choose the right components so without the design, I or anyone else can't possibly tell you what to buy.

My advice at the moment is to read and search out as many of the threads and build logs as you can, find a design that you like, and use this as a guide for your build, or simply just copy it. No one here would mind you if you straight copied their build, they probably did the same.!

Now the best advice by far and can't be stressed enough is DO NOT BUY ANYTHING, not so much as a nut or bolt until you have a firm plan and design in mind and have done the due diligence and research required. Rushing out and buying parts or Kits of parts is THE single biggest mistake new builders make and it's a very easy trap to fall down.

When you have done the research and have a design in mind then start a build thread and give an outline of what you have in mind. Ask all your questions in this thread so all the info and advice given is in one place rather than scattered around the forum, this will help you months down the line when you are trying to find any recommendations or advice given.

Now I won't blow smoke up your jacksy and say that DIY building is easy because it's not, a good machine requires careful planning and careful selection of components. It requires you have an all-around skill set of average electrical and mechanical knowledge and lots of patience.

However, it's very doable and many people with limited tools and engineering background have built some excellent machines, but in all cases 100% of them they all did the planning and research, most took many months or years to complete them.

Good luck and do the research.

[WoodKnot]

Hi Jazzcnc, thank you for your advice. I am not going to spend hundreds on cad and teach myself how to use it. Whilst I really do fully appreciate really well engineered machines, is there a point where you can over engineer something? I have seen a build that I do like, it's called indy build. I have been on open builds as well and looking at parts suppliers etc. I am starting to get my head around some of it, but the most basic element is the extrusion. Can someone at least point me in the right direction of whose is the best.

There are a lot of machines out there that do have good reviews, I agree that I can save money self building and taking ideas, upgrades etc from others builds

I am still happy with the size I want, its just who's is the best build to follow.?

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

[dazp1976]

Hi Jazzcnc, thank you for your advice. I am not going to spend hundreds on cad and teach myself how to use it. Whilst I really do fully appreciate really well engineered machines, is there a point where you can over engineer something? I have seen a build that I do like, it's called indy build. I have been on open builds as well and looking at parts suppliers etc. I am starting to get my head around some of it, but the most basic element is the extrusion. Can someone at least point me in the right direction of whose is the best.

There are a lot of machines out there that do have good reviews, I agree that I can save money self building and taking ideas, upgrades etc from others builds

I am still happy with the size I want, its just who's is the best build to follow.?

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

I think you need to find some suitable CAD/CAM software you can use and are happy with BEFORE you buy anything else.
I think your jaw might drop at the cost of some of it.
I'll be honest and say I only started messing with this cnc stuff because I was lucky (or unlucky, because as a hobby it's a bottomless £ pit). Lucky to have been gifted some decent software.
I would never have touched a machine otherwise.

[WoodKnot]

Good afternoon all -

I know its fast, but really like the Indybuild and have decided that as i will not be milling anything other than MDF, PLY and maybe some light weight aluminium, i think it should do me fine. I have done some quick calculations and it looks like i can build a far superior machine than the workbee for less money! I have already purchased his plans for just $12 and his instructions, parts list videos are all very good. I know a few engineers that can cnc some plates up for me - going for 8mm thick plate. In terms of software, i have yet to make up my mind and may look at the electronics of others, but for the machine itself, i think that will do me just fine.

[WoodKnot]

Thanks Daz - yes, £1500 upwards for some of them and a whole new learning curve as well. There is a lot to learn, not just the machine build, the motors, electrics, software, speeds, tooling, but there is a lot more taking to it. With the help on here and other similar sites, there is a staggering amount of knowledge, its just also atkes huge amount of time sifting through it all. Love Youtube and have used it for years as a resource. What software are you using by the way? is it intuitive? Is it worth the money?

[JAZZCNC]

What do you think of the indy build, it looks substantial without going over the top.

It would be a good starting point, having your experience to assess it.

Thanks

It will be a good starting point to learn, however, I wouldn't call it substantial by any means and it will show when you start to take deeper cuts with larger tools, it will especially show in harder materials like Aluminium or Brass and even some hardwoods.
The problem with machines made like this with a relatively small profile is the vibrations that affect the tool when cutting. The resonance thru the frame causes chatter at the tool which at best leads to poor surface finish and excess tool wear but more often than not tool failure, esp in materials like aluminium or brass.

Don't underestimate the strength needed for a good CNC router, you don't need the strength because you are going to mill huge heavy lumps of material, you need it to dampen vibrations and stop flex etc. Designs like these just don't have the mass, bracing and strength to allow cutting material correctly.

It's a common mistake new users make to think that they can cut at any speed they like so if the machine is weak they will just slow down because they are not in a rush and it's just for fun.! . . . . Well as anyone who has built a weak machine will tell you it's no fun snapping cutters like carrots and wrecking expensive material and quickly gets frustrating not to mention expensive.
Every material and tool requires a certain feed and speed to cut correctly and the machine plays a large part in this, so if the structure can't handle the required feeds then your always going to struggle.

However, as a learning exercise then it's a fair design for a first build, just don't expect too much from it.

[Kitwn]

There's a wide choice of software available for designing the components you want to make and one of the criteria to consider is what type of pieces you want to make. If you are thinking of more 'engineering' shapes that are mostly cutting out holes or pockets at fixed depths then I would suggest you look at CamBam. You can download a free trial and I've used it for years and been very happy with it. It isn't expensive and the license is pay once, upgrades for life. There's a very good support forum and many excellent plug-ins available free which significantly extend what it can do. The learning curve is not too steep.

For more arty stuff, carving bass-relief designs in particular, Vectric is the go-to product for most people. I've just got the basic Desktop version to try out. This is more expensive, especially if you want to do your own 3D designs but comes in three flavours (Desktop, Pro and Aspire) so you can work your way up the cost tree if you want to start small (no larger than 600 x 600mm) and see if you like it. There is no cost penalty for this as the upgrade price is simply the difference in the basic cost of each package. Again there are free trail downloads which, though very restricted, let you try before you buy.

Fusion 360 is free for hobbyists, extremely capable, though the limitations for non-paying users have become more restrictive recently, and it has, for me, proved difficult to learn how to make it do what I want. I've tried it and given up a couple of times and stuck to CamBam instead. Other users have much more success with it.

You can pay more for software than for the machine if you want to buy the full professional capabilities but there are plenty of us making useful stuff without having spent that much.

Kit

[WoodKnot]

It will be a good starting point to learn, however, I wouldn't call it substantial by any means and it will show when you start to take deeper cuts with larger tools, it will especially show in harder materials like Aluminium or Brass and even some hardwoods.
The problem with machines made like this with a relatively small profile is the vibrations that affect the tool when cutting. The resonance thru the frame causes chatter at the tool which at best leads to poor surface finish and excess tool wear but more often than not tool failure, esp in materials like aluminium or brass.

Don't underestimate the strength needed for a good CNC router, you don't need the strength because you are going to mill huge heavy lumps of material, you need it to dampen vibrations and stop flex etc. Designs like these just don't have the mass, bracing and strength to allow cutting material correctly.

It's a common mistake new users make to think that they can cut at any speed they like so if the machine is weak they will just slow down because they are not in a rush and it's just for fun.! . . . . Well as anyone who has built a weak machine will tell you it's no fun snapping cutters like carrots and wrecking expensive material and quickly gets frustrating not to mention expensive.
Every material and tool requires a certain feed and speed to cut correctly and the machine plays a large part in this, so if the structure can't handle the required feeds then your always going to struggle.

However, as a learning exercise then it's a fair design for a first build, just don't expect too much from it.