Dyson Digital Motor (Vacuum Cleaners)

[bogflap]

All good stuff but it is speed I am looking at. A Dremel tops out at 33,000 rpm, no load, and I consider that a little pedestrian.
Ok so gear things up but using something like belt drives at high rpm involves tensioners and even then at high speeds perceived internet wisdom seems to think that belts stretch, slip, burn out, skip out of grooves, become unbalanced, 'become complicated'. Gears seem to suffer a similar perceived status of 'complicated'. At the moment my thinking is that direct drive is the way to go but I am still very much open to persuasion and/or reasoned argument

What about these for PCB drilling / routing?

http://www.slidesandballscrews.com/b...tors-c-75.html

Some have integrated electronics, and some are high speed and are continuously rated.
We also have torque curves.

[Gary]

What speed and torque are you after?
the fastest we offer has a no load speed of 43000 rpm.
I have seen small motors run faster, but they were induction motors specially made for drilling applications like dental drills, but they can be expensive.
These were made by http://www.airbearings.co.uk and they can offer speeds of up to 300000 RPM.
but at these speeds expect to pay a lot and will also use air bearings

All good stuff but it is speed I am looking at. A Dremel tops out at 33,000 rpm, no load, and I consider that a little pedestrian.
Ok so gear things up but using something like belt drives at high rpm involves tensioners and even then at high speeds perceived internet wisdom seems to think that belts stretch, slip, burn out, skip out of grooves, become unbalanced, 'become complicated'. Gears seem to suffer a similar perceived status of 'complicated'. At the moment my thinking is that direct drive is the way to go but I am still very much open to persuasion and/or reasoned argument

[bogflap]

Have seriously looked at compressed air and yes the speeds are impressive. But in this thread I was simply posing the possibilities of using the Dyson motor. I just love 'bleeding edge' technology if indeed that is what the Dyson offering represents.

Why don't you router guys use comp air drives ? With the Desouter one I had which was very light, you could with a 1/8th carbide burr hold a piece of mild steel in one hand and cut through it. The exaust whilst a bit noisy could be used to blow swarf away. Phil. :idea:

[templecorran]

I had the main bearing on my router burn out (literally) after about 100 hours running. So my point is that the duty cycle for the Dyson may be short. How long does your PCB 'etching' typically take to run? I realise it depends on the amount of material to be removed. Compare that to the time it takes to vacuum the floors that the Dyson is designed for.

[bogflap]

Having started to look at bearings for high speed operations it looks like your burn out after a 100 hours may well be 'par for the course'. I looked at angular contact bearings with rated speeds of up to 200,000 rpm (phew!) and when you take into account preloading and cooling and lubricants and distortion of the shells due to centrifugal force, blah, blah, blah then 100 hours is 'par for the course'. Anyway back to the Dyson motor. If it contains bearings that will stand up to a 100 hours usage (which lets face it, for say a years warranty is ball park reasonable to expect) then maybe the motor is worth consideration.

I had the main bearing on my router burn out (literally) after about 100 hours running. So my point is that the duty cycle for the Dyson may be short. How long does your PCB 'etching' typically take to run? I realise it depends on the amount of material to be removed. Compare that to the time it takes to vacuum the floors that the Dyson is designed for.

[templecorran]

Having started to look at bearings for high speed operations it looks like your burn out after a 100 hours may well be 'par for the course'. I looked at angular contact bearings with rated speeds of up to 200,000 rpm (phew!) and when you take into account preloading and cooling and lubricants and distortion of the shells due to centrifugal force, blah, blah, blah then 100 hours is 'par for the course'. Anyway back to the Dyson motor. If it contains bearings that will stand up to a 100 hours usage (which lets face it, for say a years warranty is ball park reasonable to expect) then maybe the motor is worth consideration.

Excuse me, My point had to do with the expected life of the motor under the conditions it was designed to be used in, verses the life expectancy of the application to which is suggested in this thread. In practice the component that fails is the bearing at the business end of the motor.

I modified the base of a B&Q 1020W router (£25) for use as my RockCliff spindle. After more than 100 hours of use, my router ground to a halt with a failed bearing. I was somewhat surprised when looking for a replacement that the 6003ZZ bearings are typically rated for 22000 RPM in grease and 28000 in oil. The max speed for the router is 34000!.

I've attached the 3d dxf of the modified base for your amusement. Please don't ask for g code. My final design removed material around the base to lighten it considerably.

I better stop here -- this is getting waay off topic!

[Gary]

There are verity of speeds and the datasheets do match, what you need to look at is the nominal speed not the max speed.
As an example there is a motor that has a max speed of 20000 RPM, but at that speed the torque is very low, but at 12000 RPM, the torque is at its highest and this is the speed we rate the motor at.
this is the misconception a lot of people have.
If a motor has a max speed of 20000 RPM, does not mean that you can get the most power at that speed because torque drops as speed goes up.

I looked at those a few days back Gary...are they 12.000rpm or 20.000rpm? datasheet and description don't match :confused:

[Gary]

That is like saying a SY60 is a 800 RPM motor.
In this case the motor is at its most powerful at 12KRPM, but will quite happliy run at 20KRPM, but not at the same torque or power.

Oh cool....so it's a 12.000rpm motor...

[Gary]

Shit? compared to what? The datasheet lists a no load speed, and surely you realize that this is not the rated speed of the motor?

Speed is propotional to Voltage and Torque is propotional to current, and the curve shows the continuous rating.

Just like other DC motors, you can get more torque at the higher speeds, but you will be limited due to heat, and the heat will effect the duty cycle.

Nah it's equivalent to saying "here's a 20.000rpm motor but it's shit above 12k"

[Gary]

When you buy a servo motor that has a nominal speed of 3000 RPM, but a max speed of 5000 RPM, do you call it a 5000 RPM motor, no you call it a servo motor.
Why? because the speed is varible, and not fixed.